Curse

Pandora's box · Feb 04, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Roleplaying in GW is very limited. e.g. I can't roleplay Shiro simply because I lack his skills, I am of a lower level, and I'm always a 'goody' fighting a 'baddy'. However I can pretend to roleplay Shiro by building a massive dmg dealing chr. Of course that fragile illusion of power is shattered on the moment the dmg. output gets nerfed too much. In that way skill balancing does affect 'roleplaying'...

The Ernada · Feb 04, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Roleplaying in GW is very limited. e.g. I can't roleplay Shiro simply because I lack his skills, I am of a lower level, and I'm always a 'goody' fighting a 'baddy'. However I can pretend to roleplay Shiro by building a massive dmg dealing chr. Of course that fragile illusion of power is shattered on the moment the dmg. output gets nerfed too much. In that way skill balancing does affect 'roleplaying'...

Try playing a single player game where they let you be the biggest baddest character that you want. Most MMO's dont let you be one of the single most powerful character in the game...

Ashleigh McMahon · Feb 04, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Less with the flaming please. Let's try to stick to facts and opinions without getting aggressive and insulting others opinions and play styles.

Thanks
Ashleigh

KamikazeChicken · Feb 04, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

Wrecking a skill/attribute line in PvE can ruin an existing character because the character can no longer be played as intended.

You can do almost everything with 7 hench and an empty skillbar.... I don't see how anet could ever ruin your character. Even if you don't feel the skill(s) is/are exactly what you desire, you can still use it without much fear of failing your objective.

kumarshah · Feb 04, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

You can do almost everything with 7 hench and an empty skillbar.... I don't see how anet could ever ruin your character. Even if you don't feel the skill(s) is/are exactly what you desire, you can still use it without much fear of failing your objective.

Then just remove skills from PvE and make it a senseless Hack and Slash, Shoot/Target and run game.

The truth is skill changes do affect PvE players, their builds, their strategies so when these changes are made without taking into consideration PvE players it hurts.

Njaiguni Blaze · Feb 04, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

My last point is, most of PvE can even be done with an empty skill bar and some heroes and henchies.

Zenchu, I'll quote myself. MOST of PvE can be done with an empty skill bar and some heroes and henchies.

zwei2stein · Feb 04, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Zenchu, I'll quote myself. MOST of PvE can be done with an empty skill bar and some heroes and henchies.

You can also win AB or RA being mending wammo...

---

ther REST of PvE is what matters - elite missions and missions near end of storyline, you know, areas that are supposed to be challenging that actually require good build and teamwork.

i.e. nerf to wildblow suddenly made shiro-killing stategy in NF less effective.

Also, PvP ballances have huge collateral - i.e. my Assassin and my Ranger both use WYS to give party members nice armor boost. That was nerfed for PvP reason.

thats it, PvE people simply dont care, you go make your favourite build and then it gets changed because someone far far away finds it hard to fight against specific build, you get upset.

Then that person gets adapt stuff thrown at him. hell, adaptation should be optional - you go out to try new stuff because you feel like to and its fun, not because you have no choice - that is simply frustrating.

creelie · Feb 04, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Take Shiro on at the end of Factions and at the GoM with an empty skill bar, DoA, Fow, UW, RoT, let me know when you beat all those with an empty skill bar.

Funny story! Last night, I was in Factions preparing to beat Shiro, and the leader started us without checking. I went in with Critical Eye, Resurrection Signet, and a flatbow. Also one of the nukers got err7 at the very beginning. We got Masters.

Regarding the original topic of the post - that skill nerfs make a roleplayer sad - why? If you're already using suboptimal builds because they please you aesthetically, why would it bother you if they're made a little weaker? If your roleplaying characters just happen to all use popular, powerful cookie-cutter builds, why can't you adapt them to the changes in their world? I don't roleplay myself, but it's my understanding that there's a little more to it than one's chosen method of scrubbing red dots off the radar.

Skuld · Feb 04, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

You can also win AB or RA being mending wammo...

RA and AB don't count as PvP

FoxBat · Feb 04, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

You can also win AB or RA being mending wammo...
elite missions and missions near end of storyline, you know, areas that are supposed to be challenging that actually require good build and teamwork.

I scraped by shrio in NF with myself as a prot monk. My other healer was an resto rit with asn primary who was dead half the time. We had 2 dervishes that liked to die quickly with minimal defense skills, half our team kept dying on shiro, and it came down to me keeping a bonetti's defense tank alive while the singular skilled player on our team, an interrupt ranger, would distracting shot irressistable odds in between spamming pin down. It took forever with all the deaths but we won out in the end.

Hard PvE = DoA and maybe Deep/Urgoz, the rest you can still do with anything. Only there do you see people complaining that their favorite class has no useful role. (IE build actually matters) Last I checked there were hardly any people in either of these places... so it may account for some of the constant complaints, but not many. The main cause of failure in other missions is generally bad teamwork and some stupid/greifer players, not build.

Njaiguni Blaze · Feb 04, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Maybe it's because I never used Searing Flames? Oh, and Anet's got nothing on me and my Spiritual Pain! I still use it with succes. And calling me retarded? Sure, go on, I couldn't care less.
I never said skill changes don't effect PvE. I just said that the zomg bbq nurfzorz aren't that much of a problem in PvE if you ask me. And with 10 months of playing and too much hours, I can say that without being mentally challenged.

Mosch · Feb 05, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie

Funny story! Last night, I was in Factions preparing to beat Shiro, and the leader started us without checking. I went in with Critical Eye, Resurrection Signet, and a flatbow. Also one of the nukers got err7 at the very beginning. We got Masters.

And I'm sure this all because of your skilled use of the flatbow and maybe the signet.

Absolute Destiny · Feb 05, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Um, I just had a thought towards solving this problem...

Okay, first, I recognized a looong time ago that GW is just a PvP game with a thin, shallow, poorly built world around it.
Accepting that has helped me ENJOY PvE more, by NOT comparing it to RPG giants like The Elder Scrolls that go for total immersion.

The problem here is that the discussion (and apparently ANet) is treating PvE and PvP like two sides of the same coin.
They are no such thing.

My suggestion:
Return skills to their original configurations in PvE, and leave them in their current state in PvP.
If a player wishes to bring a PvE character into an arena or the battle isles, a loading screen will inform him/her that his/her skills are being reconfigured for PvP play.

What I'm seeing from all this bickering, is that the bigger the gap between PvE and PvP within the game itself, the better.

The Ernada · Feb 05, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

Return skills to their original configurations in PvE, and leave them in their current state in PvP.

Do you and all the other people suggesting this, really think it's realistic for the few hundred skills that we have now, suddenly double because of the split?

Do you really think Anet has the resources to add to their workload of balancing skills when they're already spread so thin?

Do you honestly think no nerfs will occur in PVE even if a split happens even though in every MMO there are nerfs?

And do you really want skills to never change? Is that even fun?

And lastly do you really think people will stop complaining even after all that? I very much doubt it.

Absolute Destiny · Feb 05, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

1. Do you and all the other people suggesting this, really think it's realistic for the few hundred skills that we have now, suddenly double because of the split?

2. Do you really think Anet has the resources to add to their workload of balancing skills when they're already spread so thin?

3. Do you honestly think no nerfs will occur in PVE even if a split happens even though in every MMO there are nerfs?

4. And do you really want skills to never change? Is that even fun?

5. And lastly do you really think people will stop complaining even after all that? I very much doubt it.

1. Yes it is realistic, because it requires almost no effort on the part of Anet.
They can just reset the skills in PvE.

2. Let them spend their resources balancing skills in PvP.

3. I'm not worried about nerfs. But if they nerf them, I want the nerf to be happening BECAUSE OF SOMETHING IN PVE, no nerfing PvE because of PvP problems.

4. What's wrong with them never changing? I think it's fun to have a solid pool of skills to choose from at all times, not worrying about this or that skill getting castrated.

5. People who look for something to complain about will never stop complaining. The rest of us can enjoy the change.

Zinger314 · Feb 05, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

5. People who look for something to complain about will never stop complaining. The rest of us can enjoy the change.

The rest of us are perfectly content with the way PvE is.

The Ernada · Feb 05, 2007, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny

4. What's wrong with them never changing? I think it's fun to have a solid pool of skills to choose from at all times, not worrying about this or that skill getting castrated.

Well what we (not just PVE vs PVP) have is a difference in playstyle and philosophy. Not wanting any change in an MMO is unrealistic. I have yet to see an MMO not change skills/mechanics/items constantly. And when they do stop changing then it usually means they've abandoned it and the MMO is dying.

Zehnchu · Feb 05, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Exactly what part of "most" do you not understand?

Maybe it would be best to fully define your “Most” statement so all of here can see what you are talking about. Are we talking pre-searing or post-searing what about missions and boss, let’s not forget the huge exploreable areas and is that using just henchmen or just hero’s or combo of both, what class are we talking about too, ya know that “most” list is looking pretty small.

next time you might want to add some meat to your post. just a suggestion.

myword · Feb 05, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

All theese were using said builds pretty effectivelly and with monster level advantages quite deadly.

Yet you saw next to noone complaining about PvEing versus em.

they weren't pretty effective, the AI is still woefully inept (more dmg/health to compensate) which is why they have to be higher levels than your party to give that semblance of difficulty.

The Ernada · Feb 05, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Maybe it would be best to fully define your “Most” statement so all of here can see what you are talking about. Are we talking pre-searing or post-searing what about missions and boss, let’s not forget the huge exploreable areas and is that using just henchmen or just hero’s or combo of both, what class are we talking about too, ya know that “most” list is looking pretty small.

next time you might want to add some meat to your post. just a suggestion.

Your post is just ridiculous. Pre-searing is not "most" and you're purposely limiting the definition of "most" just to make some silly point. In fact, I feel stupid even trying to explain this to you. "Most" means most. Do we really have to define it for you? Does it really need specifics like, "All of GW, except for that one boss and that one imp dervish."

Yeah I just lost brain cells....